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User talk:Foxwarrior/Sandbox1
Level Appropriate Could the author explain how this is supposed to match up against other ECL 1 races in both power and level appropriate abilities? --Ganteka Future 23:47, August 4, 2010 (UTC) :Not really. I suppose that the Fine size and +8 Dexterity is going to make the Arkayeri too hard to hit for something that just has a -2 penalty to Constitution. At level 1, the Arkayeri's ability to cast spells silently or ridiculous attack modifier is going to be worth the sacrifice in lifting and sensing power to a lot of people. At later levels, it's probably going to balance out a bit more. :I'm wary of giving it level adjustment because its bonuses to magical ability aren't really awe-inspiring. Do you have any suggestions? --Foxwarrior 00:00, August 5, 2010 (UTC) ::It's got me stumped at the moment. Usually, it would be just "add some racial HD and make sure it works out of the box as a character", but with spellcasting as a primary focus, and not a single class as it's spellcasting basis, it's hard to say what to do precisely. I'll do some thinking on it and let you know if I come up with anything worth noting. --Ganteka Future 00:09, August 5, 2010 (UTC) :::something i'd like to note, "Anything within this region is not entirely obvious to the Arkayeri; it will need to make a Spellcraft check opposed by the target's Hide check to detect it," the very next racial characteristic listed after this states that they have a +30 bonus to Spellcraft checks. Barring a natural 1 on the Arkayeri's roll or a Natural 20 for the creature being seen, the chances are slim to none that anything can escape an Arkayeri's notice while it's within the 100' radius field of vision.--Azerinth 14:16, August 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::It's a pretty good detection ability, I admit, but it's still easier to hide from than blindsight, and properly idiotic skill characters can manage +50 or so bonuses (by about level 10). ::::Maybe I should just make the Arkayeri Tiny or Small instead of Fine; the size bonus is what's really making it quite so excessive. --Foxwarrior 21:23, August 5, 2010 (UTC) :::::The fine size, the really strong attribute mods, the "scrying lite" see anywhere you want in the multiverse ability where you have to beat hide checks of things that often aren't making them (that you also get an untyped +30 bonus on so you'll always see level appropriate opposition), the damn near componentless casting... there's actually lots of things I don't like about this race. And wizard level isn't an excuse for it, since the community decided not to put balance ratings on races. I don't think it's a LA 0 race, and I'm not even sure it's appropriate for a PC at any LA. I wish I had something positive to add here, but I don't :-/ - TarkisFlux 22:01, August 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::::At this point, the author has made a set of revisions. ::::::This still isn't playable as an ECL 1 race. The revisions put it closer, but it's still out in unacceptable land. There's something to the concept of "magical bug with magical vision", but the execution doesn't work. I have a really hard time justifying giving fly to a race at ECL, on top of them being primarily focused for spellcasting (since I can't imagine that they are remotely capable of anything else). The Mage-O-Vision is particularly troubling as well. I see it less as "scrying lite" as Tarkis put it, and more of "scrying to the max". It's simply above and beyond what any character should have at that level of play, heck, and even too much for something around 10th level or so. It really is just that powerful. Compare it to scrying. Also, how is a race that can't "see" supposed to read scrolls/spellbooks? A pretty basic problem that hasn't been addressed in the race. ::::::Even mechanics aside, I wouldn't call this done. The flavor for something like this is just too bland and sparse. The "17 dimensions" thing really confuses me as well, since DnD operates on calling dimensions "planes". Are they seeing in 17 planes? Is calling "dimensions" just there to make it sound cooler? Also the "Wizard" balance tag has been removed. Races do not have balance ratings. I highly recommend sandboxing this until you can work on it and give it a total overhaul, both flavor and mechanics. --Ganteka Future 17:38, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Re: 17 dimensions - "Dimension" doesn't only - and certainly doesn't originally - mean "alternate reality". In the sense you're asking about, it's an abbreviation of "alternate dimension", which is a perversion of "alternate reality". Fox is pretty obviously using it in the sense of "three-dimensional space", but with 17 instead of 3 dimensions. :::::::"Seeing in 17 dimensions" is some pseudo-science-fictiony claptrap Fox made up that could be interpreted as "perceiving funky weird stuff beyond but within THE KNOWN UNIVERSE". --Quantumboost 19:42, August 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I only called it "scrying lite" because it won't find people / locations for you. You have to know where to look on your own. And once you do know where to look, you can't cast visioney spells or listen through it. But as a no-save, infinite duration, ignores magical barriers, visual only scrying it's still really strong. - TarkisFlux 20:27, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::Yeah, about the "dimensions" part of my comment. The whole point of that was basically an elaboration on the problems that arise from the flavor text being sparse (as noted in the sentence that leads up to the comment about "dimensions"). Since "dimensions" isn't elaborated on within the flavor text, it is startlingly easy to cause confusion and misinterpretation on the part of the reader. The questions posed within the comment about the "dimensions" is just given as an example of what could be construed by a reader. I used myself as a source reader, though I really don't care what the answer is, as long as it's clearly stated within the article (and it currently isn't, and certainly isn't "obvious" as to the intent). Since this is DnD, I rather assumed that dimension was used in a more "parallel world" sense, since we're not dealing with science or science fiction, at least, if we were, there probably should be more mention of it, instead of dealing with magic under an ability called Mage-O-Vision. In that context, it is very easy to see dimensionality as planar depth. Goodliness is often described as "higher" and vileness is typically described as "lower". With elemental planes and whatnot all over the place, being able to perceive 17 of these base things in a magical way almost starts to make sense. Though, this is probably me trying to read too much into what was likely an off-the-top-off-the-head make-it-sound-cool concept. Dimensions and planes aside, does anyone have any input on how to possibly fix this race to make it actually playable? :::::::::Also, Tarkis, yeah, that makes sense when you explain it that way.--Ganteka Future 20:32, August 11, 2010 (UTC) Senseless Indeed They can't detect anything, except detecting magic via spellcraft checks. How do they see anything? Rocks, trees, normal people, swords, a wolf, the sun... all these things are mundane, nonmagical objects which as far as I can tell, no amount of spellcrafting will allow you to see. You're a vegetable effectively. Am I missing something here? There are other problems but first I need to figure out what's up with the vision. -- Eiji Hyrule 23:38, August 19, 2010 (UTC) :Magic can interact with nonmagical things; thus I have assumed that it is possible to detect nonmagical things with a sense that can only directly detect magic. --Foxwarrior 05:11, August 20, 2010 (UTC) ::Then this is blindsight, but magic based (much like other creatures with unusual blindsight, Grell's blindsight is electrical, not sound based). Not that I think this is balanced in any way or fashion mind you... -- Eiji Hyrule 13:09, August 20, 2010 (UTC) :::Blindsight requires no Spot or Listen checks. This still requires a Spellcraft check. Also, this doesn't have to be centered on you. --Foxwarrior 04:03, August 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::Blindsight of a sort. Yeah, the ability to move your focus, but as far as making a spellcraft check, if they aren't hiding you'll find them anyway (+30 Spellcraft). So you will see the rocks and trees and the people not trying to hide. And those that are trying to hide would need a spot check anyway, or in this case a spellcraft check, to find them. -- Eiji Hyrule 04:48, August 21, 2010 (UTC)